Monday, January 12, 2009

The Olden days: when Spectators watched nude swimmers.

Kevin
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 18:14:52 09/12/08 Fri
Somewhere on the internet,
we've all heard Zany stories about boys swimming nude at the YMCA.
And, there were several moms watching.
And, some claim, there were even alot of girls in the audience.
this sounds so preposterous.
Who would've allowed it? But, then again, who would've stopped it.
There are countless men who swam at the YMCA.
And they all agree: No woman ever set foot inside.
However, they do acknowledge that a female instructor would occasionally give lessons to 6 year old boys.
And, they also agree,
there were female workers who occasionally walked into the locker area.
Thus allowing them to briefly see the men.
SO, once this happens, the incidents can be expected to increase over time.

Certainly, A female instructor might allows others to attend,
whereas, a male instructor never would.
It still sounds totally far-fetched.
SO, let's examine where these myths originate.

In all likelihood, there may have been 2 or 3 females.
Which many exaggerated into an entire audience of spectators.
Or, in some cases the spectators increases over time.
SO, once a few attended, more would soon follow.

In fact, I spoke to a man who's brother swam nude until the age of 14,
while several moms watched from a distance.

He says, the moms decided it would be inappropriate to bring a daughter along.
However, if Just one mom had allowed her daughter to attend,
surely, others would have followed.
And, that's how the situation gets out of hand.

This is a re-post of Personal accounts.
The commentary has been removed.
Therefore, MY opinions are NOT present in the following posts.
(you'll probably be thankful for that !!!!)

Replies:
[> Subject: Re: YMCA Stories: female observers. The rumors, the myths.


Author:
Barbara Kee
[Edit] Date Posted: 18:40:13 09/12/08 Fri
NOTICE: THIS IS A REPOST FROM MARCH 2005.
The following story is authentic.
Given forth by a lady who's mom taught young boys to swim.
During her original posts,
she stated her full name, and complete identity.
I've slightly altered it.
Her mom sometimes brought her two daughters along.
And, occasionally, there were accidental encounters with older boys,
who were not expecting to see them.
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Barbara explains:

"- I was only a little girl when my mother, who was a swim
instructor (at one point) at a YMCA. She would ocassionally take my
older sister and me along when she couldn't get a babysitter. I
guess I was just too young to be affected much by the nudity of the
little boys she taught, but I think that my sister was overwhelmed
by it.
Barbara's second post:

In reference to the emails I've received,
I finally got up the courage to call my older sister and ask her about her memories of those days.
She is 6 years older than I,
and said that I was about
4 and she about 10 when Mom started ocassionally taking us with her.
She obviously hadn't forgotten it, and remembers alot more than I do.

My sister said that besides the little boys that Mom taught,
there were sometimes boys her age and even through their teens present and naked.
I guess they were just used to coming and going from the pool area in the nude.
She told me that she remembers one time when a much older boy walked in sprouting pubic hair.
He was headed to the other end of the pool.
At some point he noticed us 3 females and sort of froze staring at us wide-eyed.
She got her first look at adult-like male genitals that day.
She said that he eventually covered himself and started running back to the locker area.
Mom yelled at him to slow down and he had to walk quickly the rest of the way.
She said she still vividly remembers his penis,
pubic bush and his wiggling fanny as he retreated!
My sister is pretty conservative,
so I never thought she would tell me all of this.

She also said that there were a few other incidents with groups of older boys.
I'll save them for some later post.

- BK



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Re: YMCA Stories: female observers. The rumors, the myths.


Author:
Coleman
[Edit] Date Posted: 21:22:11 09/13/08 Sat

I do not believe women were allowed to watch adult males swim but when it came to the boys they most definitely were allowed to watch their sons swim.

it was a different time and Mothers in my parents circle of friends saw their sons nude on a regular basis.
No boy would have thought anything of his Mom watching him swim nude.
As for the other boys, quite often,
they had been seen naked long before they were observed at the "Y" pool.

Another point to this is the era when mothers stayed home and raised the family.
It also required these same women to drive their sons around to all the various activities they might have been in.
Organized sports were not as dominant as they are today (which I think is a good thing) but their was sports teams.

Hate to differe with the ones that say it never occurred but I do remember watching my brother in the viewing area of the pool,
which was like a balcony for the Y in New Westminster, B.C. with my own mother.
I also remember one time my brother showing up at this view room also naked.




Author:
Coleman's second post
[Edit] Date Posted: 21:32:00 09/13/08 Sat
The Y where my brother swam was in New West B.C.
It definitely did have a viewing room.

One of the reasons more woman watched than men was that in the era we are talking about men worked and the majority had day time jobs.

Our father had a job that took him out of town for several days at a time.
When he was in he spent as much time as he could with his boys so there would be times he would be watching or more correctly both parents would be there.

I also don't think our family was an exception for the era.

I really do not remember any embarassement with being naked in front of our own parents or parents of friends.
One has to remember who wiped their buns for the first few years of their lives:)

To me it is no different today.
You take your kids to the pool to learn to swim or be on a swim team.
As a parent you have a vested interest in how your son is doing.
Why would mothers of years gone by not want to watch their kids.
I think one has to be realistic regarding these matters.

Has the world got to where mothers are mortified to see the sexual organs of their own sons? I certainly hope not.

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Author:
Barry
[Edit] Date Posted: 22:28:11 09/13/08 Sat
This is a re-post from May 2008. The information is 100% 5authentic.
(it's not exactly extreme, though).
The original POST included: Complete name, address, date of birth, Name of Y Facility, AND Current Photograph.

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YMCA in York, PA

It is good to learn that the YMCA in York is still
nude-friendly.
I attended the York Y first in the mid-1950s when I was in the 6th Grade,
when every 6th grader in the inner city went to the Y to learn to swim
-- boys to the YMCA, girls to the YWCA.
I remember about 100 naked boys from all over the city
in the locker room together and in one big naked swimming class.
At that time the York Y was VERY NUDE Friendly.
There was Nude swimming and I heard that a sun deck up on
the roof was available to the older men for sunbathing nude.



*In the swimming class I remember that the good looking
head instructor and all the other instructors were
nude except for one time when the observation balcony
door opened and a group of women entered the balcony
to observe the class.
I saw the head swim teacher (he was probably in his late twenties or early
thirties)quickly slip into a boxer-style swimsuit on
the side of the pool that must have been stashed there
for such an occasion.
Nudity was considered "perfectly normal" back then and
powerful forces helped to keep it that way.
One of the
cheif benefactors of the York Y was Bob Hoffman, a
Champion Bodybuilder who was also a nudist.
He gave
lots of money to the Y from his thriving business York Barbell which still exists.
I remember going to his store as a teen to buy protein tablets.
And of course, just about every boy in town had a set of York barbells.
Thanks again for posting information about the York YMCA.

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Author:
Trenton
[Edit] Date Posted: 22:39:06 09/13/08 Sat
this is from the Archives: dated June, 2001.



The men in my platoon did not have a lady swim instuctor. The lady
lifeguard looked after the little kids (under 8). We had male
lifeguards.

The lady was there only a few times, and only for a few minutes, when
we were at the pool. If we got there early she was still in the
locker room helping the little kids to get into their clothes. We
stripped out of our clothes at the other end of the change room and
let her deal with the little kids at the other end. And after the
kids were gone she sometimes came back into the lockeroom, or out to
the pool to pick up the things the little kids left behind.

We just ignored her because she was with the little kids'class.



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RE: BOYS BOOT CAMP. from Mastertips99


I was with a male friend of mine the other day and somehow the
conversation of boys boot camp came up. Newspaper articles of abuse
in these camps seems to be in the papers almost every day now. What
he related to me was that women instructors or guards are allowed to
be in the room when the young boys are inducted and given a physical
even up to monitoring the boys in the showers or being allowed to
walk into their barracks. He stated that in many cases these female
guards and instructors are no older than eighteen years of age. The
ladies are allowed to see the boys paraded about naked from induction
to hair cuts to shower to fittings. He also related the fact that no
male guards or instructors are allowed on the female side of the
camp. interesting.


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Leo
[Edit] Date Posted: 22:51:31 09/13/08 Sat
This is a re-post: august, 2008 from another forum.

I believe it was in 1960 that I spent a few days in a YMCA in North
Carolina. I was working evenings so my mornings were free. The
first morning I was there I went out for breakfast. When I came back
I decided to go for a swim. There was a booth outside the swim pool
with an older lady on duty. I asked her if the pool was open and she
replied that it was. I told her I would go upstairs and get my swim
suit and be right back. She replied that I need not go upstairs
because bathing suits were not allowed in the pool. She gave me a
towel and opened the door for me. As I entered, I saw two men in the
pool. I walked past the pool and into an area with a bench along
each wall and a shelf above the bench. An open shower area was at
the rear of that room. I had just started to push my briefs down when
the lady from the booth approached me. I pulled the briefs back up as
She said that she had forgot to ask for my wallet and valubles so she
could lock them up at her booth. As I got them out of my pants
pocket I apologized for being almost nude. She laughed and told me
that she had been working there for over 10 years and had seen more
naked men and boys then most people.
Over the next few days her and I became friends. She always
came in to the pool area to talk to me. She commented on me being
uncut and said she enjoyed seeing the many different shapes and sizes
on men's penis.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: YMCA Stories: female observers. The rumors, the myths.


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Author:
Bailey
[Edit] Date Posted: 22:55:05 09/13/08 Sat
Here is my story. I had taken swimming lessons when I was younger at
a YWCA. All the boys were nude and taught by a female instructor.
There were also two young lady female lifegaurds. I was the oldest
boy at age 12. Most of the boys were between 7 and 10 yrs old from
what I remember. The pool area was totally open mothers, sisters
watching and older women were even swimming at the other end of the pool.
It just seemed to accepted by all.
This was a facility in Vermont that was connected with a much older
YMCA. This YWCA was more of a family facility.
I also would go to the YMCA with my great uncle and no women were ever
permitted in there. The most you would see is a mother dropping of
her sons at the front desk. But this as one of those Ys that had beds
and guys would stay there. Nudity was accepted in all areas, from the
halls to the gym to the pool area.


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RESPONSE TO 7777777777777777777777
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[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: YMCA Stories: female observers. The rumors, the myths.

Answer from No Name

Author:
No name
[Edit] Date Posted: 16:58:26 12/19/08 Fri
>Bailey, did you have to take lessons at the YWCA? Why
>wouldn't they do it with male instructors at the YMCA?
> I feel bad for you. Thanks for the experience.

I think it was the usual custom at YMCA or YWCA for beginners and first-time learners, who were usually below 8 years old, to be instructed by a woman or girl, with the boys always having to be naked as per custom and rules. Usually there were also mothers and sisters to watch the kids learning. Nothing unusual or fantastic about that. But sometimes an older boy would end up in these beginner's classes. I've read an account on another site where a man recounted how as a 12 or 13 year old boy he ended up in one of these classes when his mother decided that he must learn to swim. They didn't know anything about this practice, she just signed up and left the boy in the changing room and went off. This boy was told to take everything off and join the other little boys in the pool. You can imagine his amasement and embarassment when he found himself in front of those girls and women. But he had to stay because in those days you had to do what you were told. He describes in detail what went on during those lessons, including the girls' giggling and staring.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: YMCA Stories: female observers. The rumors, the myths.



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Author:
Reinhard (incredible but true)
[Edit] Date Posted: 10:10:01 09/14/08 Sun
This is a re-post from March 2002.

I just came across this group and it brought back memories that I
thought I had filed and forgotten years ago.
I am ancient, I'm sure,
compared to most posters here,
but I recall back in the 1950s when Iwas about eight or nine
being taken by my mother to a "Y" in a small suburb of New York City.
It may have been White Plains, N.Y.,but that detail is foggy to me.
I do remember my shock at meeting the instructor
(a woman whom I thought then to be very old but in fact was
probably in her early to mid-20s) and being told the rule was the boys
would take class naked.
The teacher wore a one-piece, black bathing suit.
She apologized to my mother that since there had been a drop in
the number of students recently, I would be in a mixed-age class,
ranging from as young as six to as old as 14.
My mother thought that
would be okay and we returned next week for the first class.
I went into the locker room alone
-- some of the other younger boys were accompanied by their mothers.
My mother had to leave and I was picked up after the lesson by my father.
It was a small Y with a small locker room and
there was no way to undress out of sight of the 4 or 5 mothers in the room.
Then the instructor marched in and blew a whistle,
and said in a loud voice that it was time for class to begin.
We all marched in (about 12 of us, mostly young, including one 14 year-old.)
(he had never been naked this way before, and was partially erect, as he walked into the area).
We lined up, more or less according to height,
in front of the instructor near the edge of the pool.
I was 9 at the time.
We were facing the four rows of benches that lined one wall of the pool area for spectators.
I was stunned to see at least eight adult women in the stands and about an equal number of young girls.....
(a couple of toddlers and at least three teenagers,
including one who was the sister of one of my friends.
Apparantly, she babysat in the afternoons for one of the young boys in ther class and one of her duties was to bring his to swim lesson.
I saw that she recognized me and I went crimson from head to toe.
During class, while we were using flutter boards,
the instructor would adjust our bodies so that were kicking correctly.
Her hand went under water and brushed up from my upper thigh.

After class, something even worse occurred.
As I was in the locker room, still naked and facing my locker,
I felt a hand on my shoulder and someone said,"Is that you, Reinhard -------?"
I turned around to discover that the hand belonged to my piano teacher,
Mrs. Grabansky.
I was mortified.
She said something to me about how nice it was to know that I was in the same class as her son,
patted me on bare ass and moved on.
I can't remember how long the classes went on
-- it seemed like forever.
But if was pretty much the same routine evry time.
And even though I did learn to swim.....
One day,
when my couraged was up,
I recall asking the instructor if the girls were naked when they learned to swim, and could I come watch? She patted my shoulder.
"Oh, no. The girls don't swim naked.
And no visitors are allowed during their lessons.
They wouldn't like it and besides it wouldn't be right."
Are there any other old duffe

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It's not the first time a 13 or 14 year old boy ended up in the beginners class together with 8 year old boys with a female instructor.
These junior classes were usually watched by other females like moms and sisters. And you could hear them giggling while looking at these older boys,
especially if they got an erection while the young female instructor held them by their tummy or backside to teach them to float.
It was very embarassing for these older boys.

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I have a naked boy female teacher incident to share.
I have posted a number of times before on the site.
I grew up learning to swim naked at the Y, have been on Y swim teams,
have been a swim assistant and a swim instructor all at the Y.
All of my Y swimming was naked unless there was an open swim meet where we were required to wear speedos – mine were always a size or two too small.
The first time I ran into the clothed female swim instructor situation was when I was a 13 year old swim assistant.
Normally swim teachers / coaches at my Y had one or two assistants to help with the younger classes.
The assistants were usually chosen from the best boys on the swim teams and often the assistants were pursuing their water safety instructor certifications to become teachers. That was the position I was in.

Our Y was all time naked for the pool with very relaxed clothing....
rules for other areas so guys would sometimes work butt naked or
just hang out that way.
Men using the overnight lodging would often walk down the stairs naked or even take the elevator naked.


Until the arrival of a certain temporary swim instructor,
I had never seen a female outside the lobby.
The swim coach was having a hell of a time trying to find someone to cover three days of classes for him as he had to be away for a family wedding.

About a week before he was to leave for his trip he told me he had found someone to handle the classes;
....one person for two days who was a coach from another Y and a separate person for the other class.
He told me to be at the pool later that afternoon to meet the other teacher.
When I got to the pool, the coach was standing there in shorts;
I had never seen him in the locker room or at the pool other than naked.

He was standing with a woman which was an even bigger surprise.
I knew that there was a direct route from outside into the pool area and apparently that was how she entered.
Of course I was buck naked.
The coach immediately told me to not worry about getting dressed and to come over and meet the swim teacher who was covering for him for the beginners' class.
I was real used to being naked from the years at the Y and had a NUDIST dad
so I was not blown away by the situation and went over and met a very nice young lady who taught at the YWCA.

The coach first told me that for the class I was to let the female teacher in the back way about 15 minutes before class and that I was to be sure the pool area was cleared of men and a sign was to be posted on the pool entry announcing that a woman was present in the pool area.
Often guys of all ages would enter the pool area during the classes and would of course be naked.
The coach also told me that he had me show up naked to break the ice as he expected me to be naked for the class along with the kids in the class.

He did not want the kids to feel upset my a clothed woman and felt that if the 13 year old swim assistant who had some body hair and grown up genitals was naked than the class would not really think much about it.

On the day of the class, I did tell the kids while in the locker room (ages 8-12) that there would be a woman teaching them and that it was cool.
Especially, a couple of the older boys seemed to care that they would be naked in front of a woman, but I told them I would be naked and that they should not be wimps. Everything went off just fine.
The one funny item occurred after the coach returned
...and asked me how the class went. I told him fine.
He then asked me if I stayed naked for the class and I told him yes.

He said he wondered if I might chicken out on wear my swim team speedo
(used or any open meets).
I told him that I did not know that was an option.
He laughed and said he would have understood as I was rather well developed for a 13 year old,
but that he was glad I had the balls not to feel I had to cover my manhood.

INSIGHT FROM THE MODERATOR: this story was verified by a reliable source.


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Response From 2008
I don't think this is far-fetched at all. There are several accounts by both men and women who say that girls and women were present as spectators when school and Y swimteams were practicing in the nude. They even give the dates and places where this took place. Also about occasional female instructors when a male substitute couldn't be found.
About young women teaching boys at the YMCA or YWCA, it is true that these lessons were mostly for very young boys, but many times older boys ended up in these classes because they were beginners.
It's obvious that these incidents didn't happen everywhere, but that doesn't mean that they never happened anywhere. And it's probably not as rare as we think.

Dan 2 says, "Even today, certainly not in foreign 3rd world countries.
Not quite as true after 2005.
But, in 2002, this was extremely common.
Since then, many communities have begun to clothe their children...

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: YMCA Stories: female observers. The rumors, the myths.

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Response from Rob in 2009
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Author:
Rob
[Edit] Date Posted: 16:03:38 01/06/09 Tue

As we all know, the YMCA used to be all-male (members and employees). Quite a few, but not all, YMCAs required males to swim nude. In the 1940’s, YMCAs first started admitting both female members and female employees. Some of the YMCAs that required males to swim nude continued to require this after the females. Surprise, surprise! This often unintentionally gave females (especially female employees) a fabulous new opportunity to spy on the nude males as they swam. What’s more, the male dressing rooms often provided inadequate privacy from females now scurrying about in the hallways, because they were designed for a male-only condition. So nude males in the dressing room were frequently exposed to females outside, some of whom would even strategically parked themselves outside the male’s door and wait patiently for a privileged peek! Meanwhile, the NEWLY built, and more modern, dressing rooms for female members provided total privacy from any male by-passers outside the door. And while all this was going on, the YWCA remained a female-only facility for quite a few years! YWCAs sure didn’t want males hanging around their facilities trying to spy on the ladies, ...who never swam nude of course!!

The YMCAs REALLY SHOULD HAVE known better!!
When they started admitting females, it should have been obvious to them that spying and peeking on the part of females was a “gimme”!
But as so often happens with the double standard,
male privacy somehow becomes an afterthought of the people in charge
(while female privacy is ALWAYS in the forefront).

I can neither confirm nor deny that a few YMCAs even permitted moms and sisters to sit in the stands and view young boys as they swam nude, as we occasionally read on these kinds of talk forums.
That seems hard to believe,
but I guess I could see that happening in a few very isolated areas of the U.S. But a lot of unintentional viewing of nude males by females definitely did occur until the YMCAs banned all nude swimming at their facilities, I think sometime in the early to mid 1960’s.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]

REPLY FROM DAN 2
the reason why it may have been somewhat common is because,
people thought nothing about a nude boy who was 6 years old, or younger.
SO, once the moms were allowed in the area,
the occassional older boy would wonder into the pool area.
That's how it usually happened.
An older boy from a previous class would enter the area briefly.
So, it wasn't usually a full 30 minute nudity, but hey,
30 seconds is still a long time.
And, I will say, I have a few friends who experienced this.
One gentleman from Edmonton stated that his mom's feeling would be hurt,
if she was prevented from staying and watching.
Indeed, most ladies want to gain this type of acceptance.
That's a key to the issue, and why it's so believable.
Women generally prefer want to be trusted in this environment.
For example:
nurses often tell men, that he's got no reason to be embarrassed,
if he's undressed, in front of her. Etc. etc. etc.




I also helped create a group.
However, this is a democracy.
There is no moderator.
You can say whatever you want.
Just try me. Trolls & morons are welcome.

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or, if you prefer to post anonymously,
the voy forum is Nudity, Med Exams, Sexuality, Dipping, and anything.


9 comments:

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Dan & Bea said...

By the way, I don't believe post # 9. The story about boys walking around with erections. He obviously would've run for cover. or, at least turned away. It was probably Sarah Lynn who posted that comment. eh eh.

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Jerold Crawford said...

I am a 60 year old man who came in at then end of the nude swimming era. I do remember swimming nude at the YMCA and thinking how pleasant and freeing it was.

As far as nude men (a man in this sense is anyone with developed secondary sexual characteristics such as a developed penis, pubic and armpit hair), there are numerous pictures of nude men with clothed women at swim meets, practices and exhibitions and no one seemed to be bothered by it in the slightest. There were men and women in the audiences and clothed women on the sidelines and on the pool deck. There are some excellent bodies of work on this subject although you have to weed out the legitimate stuff from the porn. I did not even though there was a porn category called CFNM (clothed females - nude men) until I started to research this a bit more. Leave it to western culture to make something dirty out of something so innocent as nudity. (Use any web browser and type in nude swimming in school)

College and high school year books showed the men and boys with full frontal nudity and posing together (men nude and women dressed). Again, no one seemed troubled by it. While I am comfortable with nudity, I would have to give having a nude picture of me in my college yearbook some thought. Since others did it, I probably would have as well. It was the cultural norm back then.

My understanding of that era was that it was unseemly for a boy/man to see a nude girl/woman but reverse was not true for girls/women to see a nude boy/man. Boys/men were nude at the beach sometimes - girls never.

I have frankly never understood what all the fuss is about nudity. We can show all sorts of blood and gore on TV, but let Janet Jackson's nipple appear and the country melted down, kids went into therapy, new laws were passed. etc.

I am quite amused to go to the locker rooms when I am at the gym. Men my age will shave their faces while nude at the sinks while chatting and laughing with others. The younger men, who never grew up with public nudity experiences, would not be caught dead nude and put their underwear on under their towels, etc. I understand that the kids today do not shower after PE in a gang setting "as it is too traumatic". Give me a break!

Thanks for letting me share.